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Oct
8
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
Regarding the link, it is interesting, and thank you. I however can't say I'm completely happy with the logical jumps since we're discussing major historical backdrops that play a role in reality for the whole Jewish history, not minor, isolated events. The Rambam's position on angels, while off topic, confuses me as well; what kind of a test would it be to take care of angels you dream of? Presumably Rambam for some reason thought the laws of physics precluded supernatural angels from materializing? Whatever, really I don't know, and again that's just an off topic tangent.
Oct
8
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
I did not downvote this answer. Being a good answer, you should observe, is not the reason I haven't accepted it. And it's up to my discretion how much better the answer should be than my suggestion before I accept it; my request was not a contract for acceptance.
Sep
25
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@RobertS.Barnes I didn't look much into what he thinks, but I'm pretty sure those beliefs are kfira or apikorsus, closer to some flavor of Conservative Judaism and probably not acceptable by the standards of this site.
Sep
25
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@RobertS.Barnes I have not. And I'm confused by his philosophy; if he doesn't believe what the written and oral laws say about the source of the Torah itself what reason could he have to observe Judaism?
Sep
23
comment benefits of following Noahaich laws and 613 mitzovets
Perhaps there is a greater reward for a gentile who converts and observes all 613 laws than for one who simply follows the seven Noahide laws. The more you do, the more payoff you get. The only difference is that once you're a Jew, the 613 are mandatory (no option to follow just 7). But for non-Jews, 7 is all that's asked of them.
Sep
23
comment Can you ask God to kill you?
I wonder if this could be expanded to include asking God to do other negative things like to cause a drought or something. (Maybe related, if you ask for rain in the Shemona Esrai during the wrong season you must repeat it, though perhaps for another reason.)
Sep
23
comment Are adjoining Sukkoth ok?
@SethJ Not like I looked this case up anywhere, but I can't imagine why they would be invalid just because they're touching. For example, a sukkah can use a house as a third wall with no concern, why should this be different. Is there another aspect to the question that you're concerned about?
Sep
23
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@Justaguy I think there's enough examples in the Torah of things specifically being set aside as evidence for future generations (like the maanah) to conclude that God's goal is not to obfuscate evidence of miricals. So if something was written to mean it literally happened you would think there wouldn't be so much evidence against that. Regarding being told to ignore evidence, you need some reason to believe that statement in the first place, so then you would need a powerful philosophical proof of Judaism to fall back on before it makes sense to ignore everything else.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@yoel What do you define as Torah, whatever seems to be the most obvious pshat? To the answers that cite rabbis saying the Torah meant the flood as allegorical, are those not Torah? If "science" says that there isn't a firmament around the earth with stars set in them are you going to say they don't know what to look for, or are you open to the possibility that it doesn't mean everything literally?
Sep
17
comment Bereishit vs. science
Are the sun, moon, and stars "set in" the Earth's magnetic field?
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@yoel Please don't treat "science" as some massive piece of tradition with every tentative consensus being in the same playing field with the most firmly demonstrated laws. Archeologists not finding remains in a large desert confirming one event is very different from geologists, geneticists, and archeologists demonstrating that what we find is entirely inconsistent with the flood story. I'm confused why you think that miracles involved would suddenly make it as if the physical events associated with it appear to have never happened at all.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@user3120 You're right, that is what I asked for. But I'm not going to accept answers just because they're better than my original suggestions, I'll accept one if it it's satisfying, and I'll at least upvote it if I don't see any glaring problems with the answer (such as going against tradition in making a massive swath of the narrative into allegory without a properly demonstrated parallel precedent). But if you can make a stronger case for your answer with more support, maybe it'll be the best answer we can give, and I'll accept it once you do that.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@ShmuelBrin Oh I see now. Try to be direct next time!
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@ShmuelBrin I already know that the problem of creation and the problem of the flood might need a two-part answer because of two different kinds of events. I can't help that, because my question is a single one of why everything we know about human history tells a completely different story than the first 11 chapters of the Torah.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@ShmuelBrin You're welcome to write your own answer, but I would have the following problems. 1. Nuclear decay rate is a universal constant that has absolutely nothing with meteorological activity, no matter how miraculous, on any planet, and we have other ways of knowing that civilizations existed pre-flood. 2. Your second answer is basically the same as tryingToGetProgrammingStraight; for pre-Adam it's workable but still difficult to comprehend human civilizations that existed in some kind of history but not an actual temporal history, let alone why this part of the history would be needed.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
In your estimation then, did Adam's first day come full with memories about a childhood? Could he even be expected to believe that his first day was his first day?
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
This mainly addresses the "age of the universe" problem which really isn't my focus, and it doesn't address the problems as they relate to the flood.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
Well it's a bit obscure, but nevertheless interesting about R'Yitzchak of Acco. Regarding our knowledge of the flood, I think you need to sign up for a geology class at your local community college; the science is a lot more certain than you think. And again, referring to my original question, it's not just geology. A weaker science yes, but archeological and anthropological evidence still gives a strong refutation of a global flood. We also have a gene pool with far more genetic diversity than we would if we were down to 8 people 4kya, although you could say diversity was miraculously added.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@yoel What I'm looking for is a synthesis of the two that actually makes good sense and stands up to scrutiny. (If you actually investigate, the evidence for an old earth and persisting human civilizations is virtually incontrovertible. But if you can properly demonstrate how it is wrong, or give a good and defended explanation for why it is made to look that way or that the Torah means something other than the pshat, the problem is solved.) There is an objective truth to the matter. The "one right" answer is eluding me, but it's what I'm trying to flush out.
Sep
17
comment How are pre-creation >4000 BCE human civilization and pre-flood >2300 BCE civilizations that continued reconciled with Judaism?
@user3120 There are Rishonim that say maasai biraishis is, to a degree, not literal. To say creation wasn't 6kya is a stretch, and to extend it further is a leap. It's good, but if you're going to say that the explanation for human history being contrary the Torah is that the Torah never meant it as factual, a position which is contrary to thousands of years of Jewish tradition, I feel like you have to rigorously defend that position. Rigorously, meaning make a convincing argument that explains everything we know of the Torah, messorah, and science. Not just "a rabbi proposed the answer."