Mi Yodeya is a question and answer site for those who base their lives on Jewish law and tradition and anyone interested in learning more. Join them; it only takes a minute:

Sign up
Here's how it works:
  1. Anybody can ask a question
  2. Anybody can answer
  3. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top

If you start Shacharis Shmonei Esrei just before Chatzos, on a day where there is no Tachanun said at Mincha, and finished after Chatzos, do you say Tachanun?

share|improve this question
up vote 4 down vote accepted

Someone asked R' Binyomin Zilber

  1. whether not saying Tachanun is dependent on Mincha Gdola or Chatzos?
  2. If one was unable to say Tachanun after Shacharis on Friday morning, could he make it up in the Afternoon?

    The questioner says that the Shulchan Aruch says that "by mincha on Erev Shabbos one doesn't say Tachanun" which would imply that one does say Tachanun after Chatzos (but before mincha). However, the Pri Mgadim says that "if one eats bread after chatzos, he doesn't say 'Al Nharos Bavel'" (which means one wouldn't say Tachanun at such a time), and the Shulchan Aruch was not exact with the words "after mincha".

    However, according to the Gr"a it would come out that the wording of the Shulchan Aruch was exact, and one would say Tachanun after Chatzos until Mincha.

    However, the questioner asks that with regards to a Tachanun of a late Shacharis, even the Pri Megadim would agree that one has to say it even after Chatzos. His source is that it says in the Mishna Brura that if one started Slichos on the morning of Rosh Hashana before sunrise (when one says Tachanun) and continued into the morning (when one doesn't), he still "falls on his face" because most of the time one finishes slichos before sunrise. So too by Shacharis, most of the time one finishes it before chatzos, so even when it drags out after chatzos one should still say Tachanun.

    However, one could say the opposite, and say that Erev Rosh Hashana and Erev Yom Kippur are days of "Slichos", which is why we say Tachanun during the Mincha before, so if one overshoots the right time one still does "nfilas apayim". However, by Friday which is a day one shouldn't say Tachanun, and the Avudraham has to give reasons why one does say Tachanun on Friday morning, one shouldn't say it if he missed it's time.

R' Zilber answered

  1. Even the Gr"a agrees that not saying Tachanun depends on Chatzos.
  2. If one missed Tachanun, one can't make it up anyways, so the question is moot.
share|improve this answer


בכל מיקרה של ספק, מוטב שלא להגיד תחנון - ברכ״י סי׳ קל״א ס"ק י״ג, שע״ת שם ס"ק י״ד


share|improve this answer
Why are you concluding that this is a safek? – YDK Aug 4 '11 at 20:33
If someone has a Vadai answer, please post it and my answer will be removed. For lack of a Vadai answer, this is the Halacha. – Gershon Gold Aug 5 '11 at 0:01

Your Answer


By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.