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Sometimes in my ashkenazik morning minyan (prayer service) we don't have a minyan (quorum of 10 men) when the shaliach tzibor (leader of the service) reaches the point of saying kaddish in pisukei d'zimra. The shaliach tzibor often waits several minutes until the 10th person arrives. I would like to know if such a practice is correct halachically.

May the chazzan wait until there is a minyan before continuing to daven while in pesukei d'zimra?

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What kaddish is in pesukei dizimra? –  Double AA Jan 21 '14 at 15:18

2 Answers 2

Kaf HaChaim 55:5 says that if there is no Minyan when starting Hodu (Nushach Sefardim) then when they arrive at Boruch Sheamar you can say Rabbi Chananya ben Akashya..... and say at that point the Kaddish D'Rabanan. He does not mention any other options or later locations where this kaddish may be said. In addition There may be a difference of opinion regarding this with Ashkenazic authorities.

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I updated the question. I'm interested specifically in ashkenazik custom. –  please remove my account Jan 21 '14 at 15:36
We have faced this on shabbos mornings on rare occasions at my shul (ashkenazic). If no one is saying kaddish and we don't have a minyan, we continue with pesukei d'zimra, but if someone does have a need to say kaddish, we will wait till we have a minyan. I am frequently the chazen and will stand there till the rabbi indicates we can continue. –  Dennis Jan 21 '14 at 18:05

One may only say Kaddish in a congregation of 10 men above the age of Bar Mitzvah.

I believe the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch addresses your situation.

Chapter 15: 1-3 Laws Pertaining to Kaddish

  1. After the blessing Yishtabach, the chazon should recite the half-Kaddish. We may not recite Kaddish, Borchu, and Kedushoh, nor may we read the Torah unless ten adult males* are present. If ten men are not present when the congregation recites Yishtabach, but rather the quorum is completed afterwards, the chazon should not recite Kaddish, because Kaddish is recited only after prayers that were recited in the presence of ten men.

    • {The Shulchon Oruch (Orach Chayim 55:4) mentions the custom of counting as child as the tenth. The Ramah notes that some authorities allow a child to be counted only if he hold a Chumash in his hands. However, many of the later authorities rule against counting a child at all.}

Therefore, the congregation* should wait before reciting Yishtabach until ten come. They can wait approximately half an hour, but they should not wait any longer. Rather, they should recite Yishtabach, and then wait. When the ten come together, they should first recite some verses from Psalms. Afterwards, the chazon recites the half-Kaddish.

  • {The Mishnoh B'rurah 53:9 advises the congregation to recite Yishtabach and the chazon alone to wait until the minyan arrives before continuing his prayers.}
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the question is in regards to kaddish during pesukei d'zimra not after yishtabach –  please remove my account Jan 22 '14 at 17:18
so you are talking about after "reb yishmael ?" there is no problem waiting since no hefsek is involved like there would be by waiting by yishtabach. Can we apply "tircha dtzibur" here if congregants don't want to wait, (lets assume they know the 10th man will get there for sure) good question. Is the kaddish after "reb yishmael" mandatory ? another good question. –  eramm Jan 22 '14 at 17:46

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