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In various siddurim, I have seen two different instructions for when the chazzan should say the central lines of Kedusha ("Kadosh ...," "Baruch ...," and "Yimloch ..."):

  • Along with the congregation (e.g. Artscroll)

  • After the congregation (e.g. Koren)

Are there sources for both of these practices? What reasons do the sources give for doing this one way or the other?

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Its Rambam vs others iirc –  Double AA Jul 29 '13 at 19:26
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@DoubleAA Ooh, that's more consequential than I'd expected. –  Isaac Moses Jul 29 '13 at 19:28
    
Won't be by books for a bit but see Rambam in siddur tefillah and beiur halacha to the siman about kedusha (125?). Also there's an article by Rav bick on the vbm that I linked to around here somewhere, probably on the question about the chazxan finishing gaal yisrael out loud. –  Double AA Jul 29 '13 at 19:32
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The Rav of my parents' shul when I was growing up instructed me to be sure that I was reciting at least part of the line of Kedushah with the Kehillah, but noted that, if I said the entire line with them, I would need to be sure that everyone can hear me, which is difficult. So he basically recommended starting my line as they were nearing the end of theirs. –  Seth J Jul 29 '13 at 19:46
    
Dupe? judaism.stackexchange.com/q/9593/759 –  Double AA Jul 31 '13 at 13:42

1 Answer 1

It seems to be a machlokes.The sefer Ishei Yisroel pg 259 brings many shittos about this. I will mention some, the rest see inside. He brings the Biur Halacha 125 seif 1 at the end of elah,he writes that if the chazzan starts after the congregation it could be that it would be considered saying kedusha b'yichidus.He brings the Pininim v Igros Zev who brings from the Griz M'brisk that was m'dayik from the Ramabam's loshon in seder tefillah that when things are said together with the congregation "he should say it with them." He adds that a minyan which is exactly 10 and the chazzan doesn't answer with them even for the congregation it is like they said it b'yichidus.

On the other side,there are shittos who hold that the chazzan says it after the congregation. The bais Yehuda(shu"t)chelek 2 siman 3 writes that it is ok for the chazzan to answer after since his intention is to be motzei the congregation just like the rest of chazaras hashatz which he says alone. See also the Igros Moshe OC 3:4 that he starts after the congragation.

There are alot of sources so see it inside if your able to.

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What diyuk is the Griz making? The Rambam couldn't be clearer. –  Double AA Jul 31 '13 at 13:41

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