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I have seen many Yeshivas (and some not-so-yeshivas [day schools, etc.]) doing a Hoiche Kedusha for Mincha. They had the Chazzan start the first three Brachos of Shemoneh Esrei aloud and say Kedushah, and then everyone would say the Shmone Esrei together. They do this even if they are davening in the middle of he day.

What hetter do they have to do so? It says that one should do this only BeShaas Hadchak or Bedieved, not lechatchila?

I heard two explanations:

  1. They don't have time because of Bittul Torah. My objection to this is: come on. They time the break so perfectly they can't give up two minutes to say a lechatchila Chazaras Hashatz?
  2. There was no enactment of Chazzaras Hashatz in a Yeshiva, since everyone was a Talmid Chochom. My objections to this are: a. Where is a source in the Gemara/Rishonim which distinguishes between a Beis Medrash and a normal Beis Haknesses? and b. How do day-schools, which contain plenty of unlearned people, rely on this hetter?

Does anyone know any real source to this minhag?

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R' Nissan Kaplan from the Mir once explained (I heard from a bachur in his shiur) since the bachurim will anyway not pay attention to the entire chazaras ha'shatz therefore better to do this. – Yehoshua Jun 21 '13 at 10:33
@yehoshua if anything you have the best chance of people paying attention in yeshivas! – Double AA Jun 21 '13 at 10:51
@DoubleAA Theoretically.... – Yehoshua Jun 21 '13 at 11:28

I have heard Poskim grumble about this one. (No, I won't provide a source for that without getting the permission of one or two of them.) They consider this as defining Sha'at haDechak too broadly.

Also without a source in writing since I have none, though I've heard variations of this from students of American Yeshivot that have their roots in Slabodka (i.e., Chofetz Chaim, Chaim Berlin & Ner Yisroel):

In Slabodka, and possibly in other Mussar Yeshivot, there were a number of things they shortened to give the students a sense of the great value of their time. For example, they would say Birchat HaMazon only until "leOlam al yechasreinu", leaving out the "HaRachamans"... then run right to the Beit HaMedrash. Similarly, only 10 students would go into a room to do Kabbalat Shabbat on behalf of the entire Yeshiva, with everyone else expected to be at a learning seder. Yotzrot & Kruvitz lePurim were to be skipped. Extra readings in the machzor were to be eschewed, etc.

The implied message was, "A minute of your Torah is more important in a cosmic sense than those customary but nonessential prayers!" So, even though Chazarat HaShatz is relatively essential, it's use was curtailed as well (possibly using the "everyone here is a Talmid Chochom" idea in tandem with a not-so-pressing need.)

(Another theory I'd heard, though substantially less authoritative or global, was the idea of "Tov Me'ot beKavanah meiHarbeh sheLo beKavanah" - "Better [praying] a little with proper focus that much but lacking proper focus!" Since they were davening slowly and carefully in those Yeshivot, they stripped away non-essential prayers to shorten davening times to be not much longer than that in "balabatish" synagogues.)

Anyone have a good book on "Slabodka customs" or "Mussar Yeshiva customs" to source this?

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In another post, someone referenced Rav Binyamin Zilber in Az Nidberu Volume XII, Ch. 23 http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=885&pgnum=43, so I'll use him as a "not very pleased poseik" source.

In this quote, he first talks about how he used to unabashedly fight the custom, but now [that it's been over 40 years since he saw this done by his teachers] thinks he gets his teachers' point, and that it may indeed be reasonable...

He also says there that it started as the Yeshiva custom on "Shiur Day" when the lecture would spill over into Mincha time, truncating Mincha, but was then extended to include all weekday Minchas.

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It's done in Kirov yeshivas in the beginners programs to make the repetition more palatable. It's also done when a member of a tzibur has a previous engagement, his staying for a full chazarah would constitute a theft of time which is not a mild sin.

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1. It's done not only by "BT" yeshivas, it's also done by "mainstream" yeshivas 2. If it's lechatchila to do Chazaratz hashatz it's not a "theft of time", just like not skipping Pesukei Dezimra isn't. – Shmuel Brin Jul 14 '13 at 21:50
Y W, welcome to Mi Yodeya. If you can edit evidence for your claims (even if it's just "I've prayed in thirty y'shivos in Israel on various occasions, and my experience is" or the like), that's boost its reliability. Anyway, I hope you stick around and enjoy the site, which values sourced answers. Please consider registering your account, which will give you access to more of the site's features. – msh210 Jul 15 '13 at 5:09
@ShmuelBrin How do you know not skipping Pesukei Dezimra isn't also theft of time? – Double AA Sep 29 '13 at 20:17
@DoubleAA 1. The fact that it isn't skipped (so leshitaso) 2. Such a sevara isn't mentioned in Shulchan Aruch (or nosei keilim), and we're not as busy as people were 200 years ago. – Shmuel Brin Sep 29 '13 at 20:34
Your engagement with Hashem is prior to other engagements (in other words, schedule your activities around minyan). – Shmuel Brin Sep 29 '13 at 20:35

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