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I recently heard from an unreliable source that a certain Chasidic rabbi in my hometown claims that the entire oral Torah in its current written form (including the Bavli, the Yerushalmi, and all of the Torah she'b'al'peh that came later) was given at Har Sinai and passed down orally verbatim until it was finally written down.

I am pretty sure that the person who I heard this from is mistaken because I have never heard anybody make such a claim, but that's why I am asking here whether there is any group or authority who make this claim?

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"Wow", said Rabbah bar bar Channah, as his teacher relayed to him what would be the future TB Bava Basra 73-75, "I am going to get up to some pretty weird stuff, it seems." –  jake Apr 15 '13 at 14:35
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@Daniel, who ever (besides the rabbi in the rumor) said that enactments of the Rabbis are ToShB"A (in the sense of what we got at Sinai along with Scripture), per se? –  Isaac Moses Apr 15 '13 at 16:33
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@Daniel, It's a contradiction in terms to say that takanot and gezeirot are anything other than chiddushim. David Hamelech did not send mishloach manot on the 14th of Adar. In so not doing, he was not missing the fulfillment of a positive commandment. Until the gezeirot of Mordechai and Esther, there was no such commandment, and now there is. That's chiddush. Any concept of "there's no chiddush" or "it all came verbatim at Sinai" that doesn't exclude derabanans has a lot to explain away and is not something I'd accept as even possibly valid without a solid source. –  Isaac Moses Apr 15 '13 at 16:54
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Shemot Rabba 47:1? –  Double AA Apr 15 '13 at 17:21
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@IsaacMoses: Megilla 19B hebrewbooks.org/… -- ואמר ר' חייא בר אבא א"ר יוחנן מאי דכתיב ועליהם ככל הדברים אשר דבר ה' עמכם בהר מלמד שהראהו הקב"ה למשה דקדוקי תורה ודקדוקי סופרים ומה שהסופרים עתידין לחדש ומאי ניהו מקרא מגילה –  Menachem Apr 15 '13 at 18:31
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3 Answers

My personal feeling is that, regardless of whether anyone actually made or makes this claim, it should be clear that it is nonsense.

What I have heard, and I cannot provide a source, unfortunately, is that all Torah was given to Moshe, and there is no such thing as a real "Chiddush", that is, any innovation. Any "new" insights to the Torah are really just revealing the true meaning that was previously unknown or not clearly understood.

The only possible way the claim referenced in the question can be "true" is if one stretches the literal meaning of it to mean that G-d told Moshe everything, including what we have yet to learn or uncover, including debates among rabbis not yet known to us.

In other words, if taken literally, meaning it is passed down, all rabbis living today and engaging in debate should have some written source on their bookshelves somewhere with their names in it. This would be very weird.

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What do you mean by your last paragraph? Clearly not all rabbis living today and engaging in debate have their name written in some sefer. –  Daniel Apr 15 '13 at 15:17
    
@Daniel, well, that's how your question reads. "[T]he entire oral Torah in its current written form (including the Bavli, the Yerushalmi, and all of the Torah she'b'al'peh that came later was given at Har Sinai and passed down orally verbatim until it was finally written down." Is that not the claim you're asking about? –  Seth J Apr 15 '13 at 15:55
    
Yes it is. I think I just don't understand the wording of the last paragraph. What are you trying to say? –  Daniel Apr 15 '13 at 16:06
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+1. As to "all Torah was given to Moshe, and there is no such thing as a real 'Chiddush', that is, any innovation. Any 'new' insights to the Torah are really just revealing the true meaning that was previously unknown or not clearly understood", I think the Bavli in M'gila alludes to this, seeing it in a verse in Ezra, but I have the citation to neither at hand. –  msh210 Apr 15 '13 at 16:11
    
@Daniel, I'm not sure how I can be more clear. If every bit of Torah SheBe'al Peh was passed down word for word, that would necessarily include every Devar Torah and responsa written by R' Shternbuch, R' Ovadiah Yosef, the Kaliver Rebbe, R' Schachter, R' Lichtenstein, R' Schwartz, etc. etc., along with their names. –  Seth J Apr 15 '13 at 16:18
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I have heard this, and not just in Chassidic circles. However I cannot give you an actual source for it, as I have never found it written in a sefer, though I typically don't read Chassidic Sichot or some of the more radical and odd Midrashim. However here is a video that lays out fairly well the logic of both sides of the debate while being a bit comical. It is short rehash of a debate that took place in a blog thread. Wherein one person made the claim that even the Avot knew and kept oral Torah, with the other side presenting the logical fallacies of that.

On a practical level Rav Treibitz(Talmid Muvhak of Rav Shternbuch and posek in Har Nof) lays out an interesting argument for the development of the Gemarra. Here is the first of I believe 20 total shiurim on the topic. Rav Triebitz gives historical background arguing for the Gemarra being developed and written rather late with final codification being done around 850CE just before the end of the Geonim.

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video discussed here: judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/4078/avot-keeping-mitzvot/… –  Menachem Apr 15 '13 at 18:34
    
@IsaacMoses added some explanation. –  Rabbi Michael Tzadok Apr 15 '13 at 18:41
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See Yerushalmi Peah Perek 2 Halacha 4, Shmos Rabbah Begining Parsha 47, Vayikrah Rabbah Begining Parsha 22 where it says that it was all said to Moshe at Har Sinai.

ריב"ל אמר עליהם ועליהם כל ככל דברים הדברים מקרא משנה תלמוד ואגדה אפי' מה שתלמיד ותיק עתיד להורות לפני רבו כבר נאמר למשה בסיני

For a lot on this subject please see this and the following pages

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Do you have any evidence that those midrashim you cite (which are identical to each other) are not clearly allegorical? Can you also source how you know it means the exact words of our talmuds/mishna/midrash and not the "highlights" or main content points of torah shebe'al peh? –  Double AA Apr 15 '13 at 18:26
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For reasons to suspect it is allegorical, see every other comment and answer on this page. The onus is on you. –  Double AA Apr 15 '13 at 18:30
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Does this statement include parts of the Talmud which appear to be from people who lived after R Yehoshua ben Levi? –  Double AA Apr 15 '13 at 18:38
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@MeirZirkind Did he read parshat zachor? did he write a Torah? did he know he was going to have a son at age 100? So why did he laugh? ||| We've all heard these questions before. I don't know why you bring them up, when we are not talking about the Avos. And by the way, Avraham probably did neither of those things, which would be meaningless, not having been enacted yet. Moshe certainly did neither. –  Double AA Apr 15 '13 at 21:58
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@Michoel I'd call it a school of thought, not an opinion. And while Rashi may make something 'legitimate' (whatever that means) that doesn't make him not a minority extreme opinion. (It doesn't make him into one either.) –  Double AA Apr 15 '13 at 23:56
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