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In the Shulchan Arukh (Yoreh Deah Siman 23) we find the laws of "shehiyah", which relates to the laws of shechita. This is basically a prohibition stating that one may not pause in the middle of the shechita. These halachos are complicated with many nuances, including differences between a "behama" (domesticated land animal) and an "oif" (bird). What about a "chayah" (non-domesticated animal)? This is a separate category of animal with differences in Halacha from behama and oif in other areas of Halacha. Does it have it's own laws here as well, or is it categorized together with Behamas in regards to the dinim of Shehiyah. I haven't found this explicitly mentioned in the Siman yet.

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Do you have reason to think it might take a different amount of time to slaughter another chaya vs another behema? –  Fred Feb 13 '13 at 22:14
ומדלא אדכיר רבי יוסי בר חנינא עוף משמע דליכא אלא הני תרי שיעורי דקה וגסה ובכלל דקה הוי שיעור עוף וכן דעת הרמב"ם בפ"ג מהלכות שחיטה (Beis Yosef ad loc. on the opinion of the Ran and the Rambam). –  Fred Feb 13 '13 at 22:35
I'm pretty sure Behemah here means land animal, not necessarily domesticated. –  Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 2:13
@Fred there is a Behemah Daka and Behemah Gassa...That doesn't mean Chayah and Behemah –  Yehoshua Feb 14 '13 at 10:52
@Yehoshua That's exactly my point - there are only two categories (according to the BY's understanding of the Ran and Rambam); it doesn't matter if it's a chaya or a beheima. Even according to other rishonim, there is no reason to think that there would be a special standard for a chaya. –  Fred Feb 14 '13 at 17:16

2 Answers 2

up vote 3 down vote accepted

In Darkei Teshuvah Siman 23 Se'if Katan 22 he brings Shu"t Pri Ho'oretz (YD 1:4) that a Chaya has the same Shiur of a Behema which is כדי שיגביה בהמה דקה וירביצנה וישחטנה. Then he brings the Da'as Torah (YD 23 sk 4) who learns that the Pri Megadim (YD MZ 28:16) holds that it's the same Shiur as a bird, and declares צ"ע (this requires further investigation) regarding the Pri Megadim! The Darkei Teshuvah explains that that is not what the Pri Megadim is really saying (and brings support to his view from Sefer Meged Shomayim).

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@DoubleAA He beat me to it, but, well..."and in fact you have shown no differences at all between them"....hmmmmm –  Yehoshua Apr 16 '13 at 8:42
@Yehoshua 1) My statement was 100% accurate. You hadn't at all, and expected us to answer a question with poor motivation. 2) Did you see the Peri Megadim inside? He pretty clearly does not say like the Da'as Torah. All we've concluded is chaya is like behema exactly as everyone has been telling you. The fact that in the 18th century someone finally mention it explicitly is a testament to how obvious it was to everyone before him. Note that the Pri Ho'oretz doesn't quote any sources, meaning a) it was obvious to him and b) no one he knew of had discussed it explicitly. –  Double AA Apr 16 '13 at 15:07
@DoubleAA your motivation should have been that you had no CLEAR source whatsoever (since there obviously is!) Have you ever taken a test on Shechita? My friend showed me his test and this was one of the questions! If these achronim felt the need to say it it obviously wasn't so incredibly simple. Anyway it's not nege'ah since the Rema says we are machmir even for a short amount of time by shehiyah. Maybe this addresses your point why the poskim left it out. In any case the Daas Torah was bigger than any of us, so... –  Yehoshua Apr 16 '13 at 17:33
@DoubleAA I asked a number of Talmidei Chachamim this shailo. Many did say "mistama like behamah." The "bigger" ones were a bit more humble, said they didn't know and would have to look it up. As soon as I found someone who is a mumcheh in Shechita, Treifos and Nikor he on the spot told me this mareh makom. That which Gedolei Horah in Eretz Yisrael didn't know or remember...Don't get to excited and try and knock down the teretz –  Yehoshua Apr 16 '13 at 17:35
@Yehoshua What teretz am I knocking? The fact is no one has ever ruled a chaya would be different. Ever. Because it was obvious. You found 3 people who mention it explicitly, the first of which only did so when prompted to. There are hundreds who don't mention it because it was obvious. You showed no reason to expect there would be a difference, and found that everyone holds there is no difference. Doesn't sound like a good question to me. (And yes, I have taken a Shechita test, though I don't yet have a Kabbalah.) –  Double AA Apr 16 '13 at 19:42

Unless otherwise noted, חיה בכלל בהמה (Bava Kama 17b).

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I think your conclusion is right, but I don't know if that linguistic point about Mishnaic Hebrew usage applies to all further rabbinic writings and could then be used to prove it. IAE you still haven't shown, sourced or even claimed that a difference is not otherwise noted. –  Double AA Feb 14 '13 at 2:30
@DoubleAA 1. In my experience it has been used that way. I think I remember specifically an example by the Mechaber himself in the laws of excrement in the laws of Shema (I didn't check for it). 2. The author of the question himself says so. If you want, I can read through the chapter, but I think I can trust Yehoshua on that. –  b a Feb 14 '13 at 2:33
@ba as an example a chayan and oif need cisui dam, a behamah doesn't. so....Over here in my case it's a metzias on why the shiur of shehiyah would be more or less by a behemah or oif (or perhaps even chayah.) See the first Sif in SA and beginning of Simleh Chadasha –  Yehoshua Feb 14 '13 at 10:55
@Yehoshua - Re. kisui dam: it's because there is a pasuk that says so (Vayikra 17:13). –  Fred Feb 14 '13 at 17:21
@Fred My point being that it's not the same always. Bad example but only thing that came to mind. We see chilukim between behamah and chayah though in other instances. This would seem to be the same if not more so. Or at least to know if a chayah is not like an oif in regards to this din. –  Yehoshua Feb 14 '13 at 18:07

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