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I have read and heard in certain places that among certain Orthodox groups, if one converts with Chabad-Lubavitch that their conversion will not be valid, if someone were to convert with Chabad and then decide later to join the Breslov movement, or Satmar. Would that person have to undergo conversion once more? I want to convert to Judaism and am currently at a Chabad shule but I have been becoming more interested in the Breslov movement, and there is no Breslov shule in my country, would I have to undergo conversion once more to be accepted fully in other Orthodox groups if I had converted with Chabad already?

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I am surprised at this. I have never heard it before. Where did you read or hear this? –  b a Aug 8 '12 at 5:57
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@Ariel it's customary to put "Rabbi" before a rabbi's last name. –  msh210 Aug 8 '12 at 15:08
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Woe is to us that this is a valid question. –  shachna Aug 8 '12 at 15:15
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Ger, could you edit in where you heard this? If you have links, so we can try to follow the reasoning of those who say that, so much the better. (I suspect that what you have heard is not correct.) –  Monica Cellio Aug 8 '12 at 16:35
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I don't know why this has been downvoted. It does not seem to me that Ger is asking anything controversial. He is in the process of converting and wants to know if he will encounter problems and if he should seek out an alternative Beith Din (and how to do that). –  Seth J Aug 8 '12 at 17:13

6 Answers 6

In Breslov specifically we are careful to adhere to the Rebbe's words and avoid any unnecessary stringencies. As such, a conversion by a shomer Shabbos beis din that involved bris mila, mikvah, and sincere and total kabalos mitzvos would generally be seen as valid to most Breslov communities and individuals.

All that said, to the best of my knowledge Chabad does not perform conversions.

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The question then becomes, is whatever the issue Ger heard of a unnecessary stringency or a necessary stringency. –  Double AA Aug 9 '12 at 2:54
    
@DoubleAA what would be a necessary stringency? I can think of some chumros that we have in Breslov - glatt and gebrokts come to mind - but by "unnecessary" I was just using really the loshon of Rabbenu for any chumra that hampers a person's observance - or which has a negative effect on those around them. –  yoel Aug 9 '12 at 3:02
    
I'm not arguing for or against any position here. But suppose the issue is believing in a dead mashiach, and suppose someone convincingly argues (with sources!) that to do so invalidates one's conversion, then wouldn't Breslov abide by that position? If so, then I'm not sure what your answer adds to the discussion; you would just be saying that Breslov would accept or reject the conversions based on if they think it is invalid or not. –  Double AA Aug 9 '12 at 3:07
    
@DoubleAA it would seem, then, that at least a large part of this question is really simply whether or not such a belief is kefira. –  yoel Aug 9 '12 at 3:10
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@DoubleAA cant argue with that! I'm actually surprised that this question isn't, then, a duplicate. –  yoel Aug 9 '12 at 3:22

I think that the answer to this question is "it depends." If the Chabad-trained conversion candidate does not espouse "Meshichist" doctrine -- the advocacy that the deceased Lubavitcher Rebbe is/will be the Messiah, in contradiction to the Rambam's position that a deceased person cannot come back to be the Messiah -- then I doubt there will be any issue in most communities. But if the candidate willingly takes the position that the Rebbe is/will be the Messiah, the proability of approval is less likely.

This issue came up in Israel in 2007 when a Chabad-educated conversion candidate applied to a senior beit din counsel to have his conversion authorized. During his interview with the three rabbis he espoused meshichist views. The decision was elevated to four senior rabbis, two Modern Orthodox and two Haredi rabbis. The Haredi rabbis were inclined to approve the conversion, while the Modern Orthodox pair were not, ruling that an exponent of messianist beliefs cannot be converted to Orthodox Judaism. In the end, the Conversion Authority in Israel adopted the position of the opposing rabbis and stated: "They [messianic Chabad Hassidim] attribute to him supernatural powers years after he passed away. That is not Judaism. It's something else."

One could also infer that Chabad conversions might be rejected, if the convert was a meshichist, from statements by such individual gedolim as Rav Aharon Feldman, shlita, Rosh HaYeshiva of Ner Israel Yeshiva and a member of the Council of Sages, and Rav Shlomo Eliyahu Miller, chairman of the beis din of Toronto. Rav Feldman, in a public letter, and Rav Miller, in the April 2008 issue of Mishpacha Magazine, both said that they would not recognize the decisions of a Meshichist rabbi.

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I am a ger who converted with Chabad Beis Din and ,BH ,I am accepted in Satmar ( they invited me to simches and they brought me to speak to their rebbe) I am also accepted in the yeshivis world ,got alyot in their shuls

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Do they know where you got your geirus? –  Shmuel Brin Nov 3 '13 at 21:47
    
i got alyos in 2 shuls (in 1 shul only the main rabbi knew, and now he is not there anymore, so they still give me alyos)In the other shul a Chabad rabbi that davens there called me, so they keep calling me.The Satmar guy knows about my conversion and (I guess he told his rebbe) –  sholy Nov 3 '13 at 21:52

I really feel for what you are going through right now. It is unfortunate but there are politics that surround even this issue at times. My suggestion is to work with your sponsoring rav and find the least controversial beis din as possible. I would suggest looking into what ou, young israel, and aish have to offer as far as the conversion process. After your gerus what hashkafah and community to chose to be a part of is up to you and isn't relevant to the ritual of the conversion process. There are three main components for conversion and only three that matter... 1.acceptance of all of the mitzvas and fundamental beliefs (13 principles of faith) 2. mikvah and 3. bris milah (or hatfas hadam habris). May G-d almighty bless you in your journey.

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Your Chabad rav likely makes a splendid sponsor, though in USA you should approach RCA/BDA beis din. Then you should be assured of no question regarding Chabad involvement in your gerus. All the best to you!

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This doesn't really answer the question. –  Scimonster Nov 18 at 8:24

[Speculation:] I do not believe you would have a problem with Breslov, since Chabad and Breslov are pretty close.

Satmar though, I don't know. There is unfortunately animosity there.

There is also animosity between Chabad and followers of Rav Shach.

Aside from any Halachic issues that may or may not exist (and that depends on whom you ask - if you ask followers of Rav Shach or Satmar they might tell you it is Halachic; if you ask followers of Chabad they might tell you it's not) there are also, unfortunately, politics at play dating back to a controversy between Chabad and Rav Shach in the knesset in 1988 relating to many issues, including peace and giving away land). Unfortunately, political and ideological disagreements aren't any easier to overcome than religious disagreements.

Yehi Ratzon (May it be G-'d will) that there should be peace between Jews even when we don't agree.

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If you want to claim it isn't halacha based against those claim it is, you should really back it up with a source. –  Double AA Aug 8 '12 at 11:26
    
It is not true that Chabad opposed Rav Shach, but that he opposed Chabad, and his opposition to Chabad was one of the reasons that he split from Agudas Yisroel and formed Degel haTorah. –  Shimon bM Aug 8 '12 at 11:29
    
@DoubleAA Despite their claims that they oppose it on halachic grounds, the truth is that it's entirely political. If you think source for a topic like this even exists you are mistaken. This topic is full of fire and hate. No matter what source you find someone else will dispute it. My goal was to give a small amount of background on what's going on. This is NOT a halachic question. This is a fight. –  Ariel Aug 8 '12 at 11:38
    
@Ariel If you think that no sourced answers can be given and that the question will promote extended argument and discussion then flag (or vote -- rep permitting) to close as Not Constructive. I for one am not giving up hope for civility on this site so soon. And BTW background information should be sourced too; I imagine it would be relatively uncontroversial history. –  Double AA Aug 8 '12 at 11:43
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" This topic is bringing back some bad memories." Then, in my opinion, if you cannot remove bias from your answer, you should not be engaged in this topic. It's clearly unhealthy for you, and it is not helping the OP. Your answer contains useful information and is salvageable, but please allow an independent party to edit it. –  Seth J Aug 8 '12 at 13:20

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