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When Tisha B'Av immediately follows Shabbos (either because the 9th of Av is Shabbos or because the 9th of Av is Sunday), how and when do we make havdallah?

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Mods, IMHO this is not a dupe. The other is talking about 9 Av that is pushed off till Sunday; this is talking about 9 Av that is on Sunday. There are different laws. The answer to the specific question is a partial answer to the other question, but that is a subset of this, not the other way around. –  Seth J Jul 27 '12 at 14:28
    
@SethJ The laws regarding Havdalah are different? Also I don't know if the OP here meant Tisha b'Av the date or Tisha b'Av the fast; certainly the answer assumes a nidche by limiting meat and wine to only the night after the fast. (I'm pretty sure you can ping me if I've closed it even if I haven't commented.) –  Double AA Jul 27 '12 at 15:04
    
Perhaps the other question should be split as suggested there: it's really two different questions. The part about havdala should be here only and the part about Shabas should be there only, and the (nota, downvoted) answer about havdala there deleted. Thoughts? Ping @SethJ. –  msh210 Jul 27 '12 at 16:06
    
@msh210 I didn't want to be so bold, but that's pretty much what I was thinking. Although it should be noted that there is still a difference between the two scenarios. If 9 Av is Shabbath, then when Havdalah is made (Sunday night) the wine may be drunk by the adult making Havdalah. If it is actually on Sunday, Havdalah is still made Sunday night, but the wine may not be drunk by the adult (unless there is nobody else to drink it?). (Note my uncertainty on the last half of the last sentence, hence not an answer. –  Seth J Jul 27 '12 at 17:14
    
@SethJ I've edited the qustions and answers in light of my and your comments, and reopened this. Please tweak as needed. –  msh210 Jul 27 '12 at 18:06
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up vote 5 down vote accepted

from my shul newsletter

No havdala on cup, no besamim.

At 9:02pm or after, say "Baruch Hamavdil Ben Kodesh L'chol" (not with brocha). Remove shoes. (We say brocha of "Borei Meorei Haish" in shul.)

Sunday night; Havdala on cup. No candle or besamim. For Havdala, one may use grape juice or wine.

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What about in the Shoma Esrei on motzei shabbat? –  Daniel Jul 27 '12 at 13:48
    
Also, what about the paragraph hinei kel yeshuati? –  Daniel Jul 27 '12 at 13:49
    
while it isn't included in the newsletter, I would figure that the ata chonantanu is said on Saturday night and on Sunday night I would guess (guess) that one starts with hagafen. –  Danno Jul 27 '12 at 14:09
    
@Daniel Attah Chonantanu is said as usual Saturday night and Shmoneh Esrei is still not repeated if forgotten (OC 294:3) –  Double AA Jul 27 '12 at 14:27
    
@Daniel according to my shul's bulletin, after the fast, "[o]nly the two blessings "borei p'ri hagafen" and "hamavdil" are recited. The introductory verses are omitted, as are the blessings over the spices and candle. " –  Charles Koppelman Jul 27 '12 at 14:29
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Havdalah is said Sunday night after the fast, omitting the blessings on spices and the flame (the latter of which is said on its own next to a flame on Saturday night). (Shulchan Aruch OC 556)

Attah Chonantanu is said as usual Saturday night and Shmoneh Esrei is still not repeated if forgotten (OC 294:3)

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Moved from judaism.stackexchange.com/posts/17702/revisions –  Double AA Jul 27 '12 at 18:14
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