Take the 2-minute tour ×
Mi Yodeya is a question and answer site for those who base their lives on Jewish law and tradition and anyone interested in learning more. It's 100% free, no registration required.

A lot of people have told me (and I seem to remember seeing so myself) there is a view in the Rishonim that someone who is killed Al Kiddush Hashem (for the sanctification of G-d's name, ie., martyrdom) does not feel the pain. In this thread people have pointed out a few proofs that they definitely did feel the pain.

What is the source that there is no pain when being killed for Hashem?

share|improve this question
    
I think your question seeking a source (now answered) and your question about reconciling passages should probably be split into two. They seem rather disparate to me. –  msh210 Jul 11 '12 at 18:57
1  
The proofs in the second half of your question aren't very strong. R' Hanina ben Teradyon did not request that the pads be removed: he assented to the request of the executioner. Likewise, R' Akiva never said that he was in pain: his talmidim were the ones who asked the question. I'm not saying that they WEREN'T in pain; just that the literature doesn't SAY that they were. –  Shimon bM Jul 11 '12 at 19:08
    
perhaps you can pop Gershons source into the question and just leave the second question then! –  yehuda Jul 11 '12 at 19:08
    
@ShimonbM at least then the Talmidim thought he was in pain, I feel sure that they didnt lack any knowlegde that the Maharam didnt had? –  yehuda Jul 11 '12 at 19:10
    
@Yehuda, no, you already have an answer to your first question, below, so don't remove that part. (See meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/a/1231.) I think you should remove the second question and split it off as a separate question. –  msh210 Jul 11 '12 at 20:54
show 9 more comments

2 Answers

up vote 8 down vote accepted

Per http://www.ashlag.com/parasha_in.asp?id=206&idd=5 this is based on a Maharam M'Rotenberg. The pain is not felt if the person is not anticipating a miracle, however if the person is anticipating a miracle then he does feel the pain.

בשו״ת מהר״ם מרוטנבערג (סימן תקט״ז) דכשגמר האדם בדעתו למות על קידוש השם ומסר נפשו על זה, אז מכאן ואילך כל מה שעושים לו אינו מרגיש, ולכן מובן מה שמצינו שכשהקדושים הושלכו באש לא צעקו כלל, אף שהאדם הנוגע באצבעו באש אי אפשר שלא יצעק, כי כשהולך על קידוש השם שאני. אך במה דברים אמורים כשמוסר נפשו למות, אבל אם מצפה לנס ולא גמר בדעתו למות, אז מרגיש את היסורים.‏

The Teshuva says סימן תקט״ז, but it actually is סימן תקי״ז.

share|improve this answer
    
Amazing, just what I was looking for! Makes the Kasha even stronger when the opinon is sourced! –  yehuda Jul 11 '12 at 18:56
2  
Reb Yishmoel defitily wasnt. He had already gone to Shomayim and they had told him it was a decree from Heaven! –  yehuda Jul 11 '12 at 19:10
1  
Do you have access to the rest of the teshuva? I checked the source that you quoted this from, and it's all they have. Clearly (since it begins with דכשגמר), this is following on from another observation that the Maharam made. Perhaps the entire thing would make this clearer? (+1 BTW: this was very well spotted). –  Shimon bM Jul 11 '12 at 19:20
2  
@DoubleAA, Found it. (It's actually 517.) –  jake Jul 11 '12 at 23:59
1  
Is anybody else bothered by the fact that the quote above is not what the printed passage says? –  Shimon bM Jul 13 '12 at 1:40
show 15 more comments

For a comprehensive review of this topic and a broad list of sources see Michael Fishbane's "The Kiss of God" chapter 2: The Sanctification of God in Love. Among the sources he cites is the Shu"T MaHaram quoted above but he quotes the later Rabbi Moshe Galante's Koheles Yaakov (73a) as sourcing this idea in Tosfos; he writes:

In my opinion, the sense [of this verse (Koheles 8:5)] is similar to what is adduced by the Tosafists... following a tradition of sages [of France]: 'Those who are burnt and killed for the sanctification of His Name do not experience this torment but die [painlessly] by the [divine] kiss.'

He cites many other sources for this idea as well.

share|improve this answer
    
Maharam was a Tosafist so those are essentially the same source. –  Double AA Jul 24 '12 at 15:16
    
@DoubleAA Though he may have been a contemporary, the reference was to the baalei tosfos of France which procludes Rabbi Meir of Rothenburg. –  user1668 Jul 24 '12 at 15:50
add comment

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.