Take the 2-minute tour ×
Mi Yodeya is a question and answer site for those who base their lives on Jewish law and tradition and anyone interested in learning more. It's 100% free, no registration required.

In Askenazi communities, the piece beginning 'misod chachomim unevonim' is said at the repetition of the Amidah at Shacharis when there are piyuttim (except Purim) and on Musaf on Yomim Noraim as well as, in my Machzor, at Mincha and Neilah on Yom Kippur.

I thought the reason was to establish permission to “interrupt” the Amidah with these additional prayers.

But it is not said before the piyuttim in Musaf on (1) Shabbos Shekolim and (2) Shabbos Ha'Chodesh and at the beginning of the (3) Krovets on Purim morning.

Why not?

share|improve this question
    
Isn't it also said by Mincha and Neilah on Yom Kippur? –  Double AA Feb 19 '12 at 15:06
    
@DoubleAA, I find machzorim (nusach Ashkenaz) that don't have it at Minchah. But yeah, I haven't yet found one that is missing it at Ne'ilah. –  Alex Feb 20 '12 at 4:45
    
Thank you @DoubleAA. I have edited the question to take account of both comments. –  Avrohom Yitzchok Feb 20 '12 at 14:22
    
Very similar: judaism.stackexchange.com/q/47500 –  msh210 Oct 22 at 18:38

2 Answers 2

Possibly the difference has to do with the structure of the piyutim in each case.

The halachah is that you're allowed to add any kind of requests, even private ones, in the middle berachos of Shemoneh Esrei (Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 119:1), and you can add public ones even in the first and last ones (ibid. 112:1). In either case, though, the addition has to be thematically related to the berachah.

Arguably, then, the relatively short paragraphs inserted into the berachos, in the instances mentioned in the question, are closely related enough to their parent berachos to not need any kind of special "request for permission" (which is basically what Misod is). In fact, I have a volume of ancient piyutim (found in the Cairo genizah) for individual Shabbasos throughout the year (מחזורי שבעתות לסדרים ולפרשות, ed. Shulamit Elitzur), from which it seems that there were times and places where they used these as replacements for the original bodies of the berachos (i.e., the chazzan would begin his repetition of Shemoneh Esrei by saying a four- or five-line piyut and then continue בא"י מגן אברהם, etc.) - so that there is precedent for considering these to be basically alternate versions of the berachos rather than interpolations.

Whereas when there are longer piyutim, even though the ones inserted in the berachos do (usually) end with a phrase containing the main theme of the berachah, it may be much harder to justify them on that basis.

share|improve this answer

I one time heard, although I do not recall the source, that we say it whenever there is an interruption between the Bracha of Mechayei Maisim and Kedusha, and we do not say it when there is no interruption between the Bracha of Mechayei Maisim and Kedusha. Thus the times you mentioned that it is not said, there is no interruption at that point and therefore it is not necessary to say.

share|improve this answer
3  
But why are interruptions there different? –  Double AA Feb 20 '12 at 2:01
    
I guess there is no need if there is no interruption between the Bracha of Mechayei Maisim and Kedusha. –  Gershon Gold Feb 20 '12 at 2:02
2  
You just repeated the facts of the case. I'm looking for a reason to differentiate. –  Double AA Feb 20 '12 at 2:03
    
I do not know the reason, however I can explain to you a clear distinction. –  Gershon Gold Feb 20 '12 at 2:05
1  
I'm not too sure this distinction holds water. Consider the second day of Rosh Hashanah in Nusach Ashkenaz (and Ari): we say Unesaneh Tokef (as usual, after Mechayeh Hameisim and before Kedushah), but the chazzan doesn't say Misod. (See example here.) –  Alex Feb 20 '12 at 2:26

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.