Take the 2-minute tour ×
Mi Yodeya is a question and answer site for those who base their lives on Jewish law and tradition and anyone interested in learning more. It's 100% free, no registration required.

In a discussion I overheard, I seem to understand that there is a Halachic Issue of mixing Coleslaw into the Cholent in my plate on Shabbos. I also heard, but it may be a separate topic, that the croutons placed in the soup are a Halachic problem.

What are the issues involved and what do the current day Halachic decisors say?

share|improve this question

1 Answer 1

Your questions are related, but involve different subsets of law to answer them.

As you know, uncooked products may not be cooked on Shabbos. What constitutes cooking?

From OC 318:4 and commentaries:

Primary container on a fire (empty or with liquid): Potential to cook anything.

Primary container removed from the fire- still hot: Potential to cook just about anything (not ox meat, maybe not salt).

Liquid poured from the primary container- still hot: Potential to cook a layer of food

Secondary container (liquid poured from the primary)-still hot: Generally cannot cook except easily cooked food (nowadays we consider everything easily cooked unless we know otherwise)

Liquid poured from a secondary container- still hot: Generally cannot cook except easily cooked foods. Here we allow most things unless we suspect it is easily cooked (think salmon).

These have to do with the air and container walls cooling down the dish so that it will not retain its heat long enough to cook.

By the time the chulent or the soup goes from the pot to the ladle to the bowl, you should be good to go except for 2 laws which are argued about, and we are strict when the dust clears:

  1. Davar Gush/Solid Items (MB 318:47, 65): You've probably noticed that solids retain their heat much longer than liquids. We pasken that solids do not get downgraded to secondary or tertiary container status, but retain their primary "container" status as long as they are hot. So if your chulent is dry, you may have this problem. This isn't an issue if your cole slaw is touching a liquid part of the chulent.
  2. Bishul achar afiya-cooking after baking (OC 318:5): We pasken that something which is dry baked is not considered cooked in regard to liquid cooking. So baked croutons may be a problem if you put them in a primary or secondary container of hot soup. Again, by the time they hit your bowl, you should be dealing with a tertiary container.

Regarding ladles: Ladles are not easily classified as a secondary container since the liquid was not poured into it but was taken by placing the ladle in the primary container above the fire. I recall from the Shabbos Kitchen book that we are strict to call it a primary container while it is in the ladle and pouring from a primary container when it is poured. However, after it is poured into the bowl and should be a secondary container, we are no longer strict and effectively consider it a tertiary container.

Accordingly, you should not pour the soup from the ladle onto the croutons, but may place the croutons into the soup after it is poured from the ladle.

share|improve this answer
    
Arent croutons fried would that change its status –  simchastorah Jan 31 '12 at 2:05
    
+1, but I was under the impression that a davar gush in a liquid isn't considered a davar gush (so an onion in a chicken soup coul be considered a Kli Sheini) –  Shmuel Brin Jan 31 '12 at 2:25
    
@simchashatorah, when I hear crouton I alway think of dried bread. If croutons are fried, you are correct. –  YDK Jan 31 '12 at 3:28
    
@ShmuelBrill, If your chulent was "wet" so that your cole slaw was touching the liquid, you are correct that that wouldn't be a problem. That's why I specified dry chulent. –  YDK Jan 31 '12 at 3:31
    
The Israeli style yellow squares (Shkeidei Marak) are indeed fried and therefore are not a problem. Regular bread-croutons may differ based on production. –  Double AA Jan 31 '12 at 5:40

Your Answer

 
discard

By posting your answer, you agree to the privacy policy and terms of service.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.